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Can a mashkan (collateral) create a shibud (obligation) when no underlying debt exists? The Ramban (רמב"ן) holds that acquiring the mashkan simultaneously creates the obligation, while Rav maintains this is impossible since mashkan can only secure existing debts. The analysis explores whether this reflects different understandings of kinyan or the fundamental nature of nesina in kiddushin.
This shiur examines a core machloket between the Ramban (רמב"ן) and Rav concerning the Gemara (גמרא)'s statement 'manay ikan mashkan ikan' - if there's no money, there's no mashkan. The Ramban holds that even when saying 'when you acquire this mashkan, I want to obligate myself to give you a manah,' she becomes mekudeshes through the shibud (obligation). He argues that when one acquires the mashkan, they also acquire the shibud, as the mashkan works to create the obligation. The Rav fundamentally disagrees, maintaining that a mashkan cannot work to be koneh a shibud (acquire an obligation). According to the Rav, since the person receiving the mashkan gets no actual rights in the mashkan when no underlying debt exists, the mashkan is ineffective - it's merely words ('mili b'alma'). A mashkan can only secure an existing loan, not create one.
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Kiddushin 6b-7a
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